Absolutely need a search function for POCO's - and I really hope CCP Omen you guys had the for sight to prepare that too?

Cause here's the scenario:

- Corp places Low Sec Temperate / Barren POCO(s)
- Corp camps Low Sec Temperate / Barren POCO(s)
- Corp waits for Indy Pilot to generate Tax/Tarif revenue
- Corp kills Indy Pilot and collects Tier 4 Advanced Commodities (in addition to the tax/tariff they just got)
- Corp gets much more preferred Transport Kill Mail
- Corp breaks CCPs POCO system, because Corp prefers Kill Mail to tax/tariff revenue
- Corp waits for next sucker

Hence a searchability function is essential!

Step 3.) Another corp jumps in with a bait hauler.
Step 4.) Pirate corp engages
Step 5.) Second corp jumps in the rest of their fleet and beats the **** out of the pirates



Indeed.

If this is CCP's intention, then let them say it, but CCP Omen as repeatedly said that his is a purely economic decision. because let's face it, people like ISK more than kills right?

(That's sarcasm btw)

If someone makes their customs office inaccessible to you there will always be others owned by reasonable people who welcome the neutral haulers into their space for the small profit through tax and potential killmails.

I agree with the majority of your points, but i gotta be honest....

If they take your advice and design their features your way, they'll never make it out of forum discussions ever. They will design, implement, and iterate around in circles endlessly as sentiments give and tug, and we all hem and haw.

Sooner or later, you gotta put that new swingset down in the sand box to see what your monkeys are going to do with it.

It seems to me that this is indeed a better system and one that definitely fits better with EVE's universe, but that it should have been implemented when PI was introduced. Now that the economy and the player base are used to the current system, simply removing all the custom offices in low, null, and WH space strikes me as a terrible idea. I like the idea of player controlled custom offices. I just tend to agree with many posts here that at this point it should be a gradual shift towards that and that simply removing all the existing NPC custom offices would make the switch more painful then it needed to be.

I read through the first 10 pages of comments or so and didn't see anything about a question that has been eating at me:
How many customs offices would each corporation be able to control? Would there even be a limit?
My apologies if this was answered somewhere and I missed it.

It should be possible to search for them through the Science and Industry window - but you should only be able to see POCOs that you are allowed to use.

By limiting the S&I window searching to only the POCOs that you qualify for, an organization that wishes to "fly by night" and keep a low profile could simply restrict usage of the POCO to their closest friends (or just their corp members). Their POCO would not show up on the S&I screen and in order for someone to find the POCO they would have to fly out to the planet's customs office location and look (just like a modern POS). This would give security to the POCO similar to that of existing POS towers in that you would have to survey the system regularly to find POCOs that don't show up in the S&I window.

I don't believe that POCOs should show up on the overview unless on-grid, but their warp-in points should (just like moons - the moons are on the overview, but the towers are not unless you are on-grid).

The S&I window would need a filter for "current solar system", "current constellation", "current region" - just like when you search for lab slots.

So to the critics that say I am just being negative here is how you fix this idea.

1. Null sec and WH's work as planned.
2. Structures have to be "serviced" every 30 days by the owners or the shields and structure drop to 0 and be single shot popped.
3. High sec taxes can rise but only after the correct numbers have been determined after real study, not just a lazy doubling.
4. Low sec CO belong to the pirate faction dominant in the system they are in. To access them you have to work out your NPC pirate issues.
5. Rockets get a lot bigger and you are allowed to drop supplies to the planet.
6. Rocket launches and orbital deliveres happen at the launch facilities, not the command center.
7. I can hack a CO and steal whats inside in WH and Null, I can in low sec but I have to fight off an NPC pirate spawn to do it.

Do that and I think I can endorse your product or service.

Issler

By "POS spamming of old", are you referring to when POS count was married to sov mechanics? I don't see your connection.

I can't wait to see all the whining when Dust514 finally goes live and the ability to shoot at PI installations becomes a reality too.

I'm sure it'll come as a complete surprise to people that the Eve - Dust514 link is a pvp game too.

Hey CCP, Remember this ? http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=2672

Thats right, the one about CCP CEO apologising to the EVE player base for rushed expansions/features that no-one wants/nerfs that suit the few and not those that actually use the ****, without listening to the player base. ..

Just because he didn't mention PI, doesn't mean you have to **** that up too !

After reading 50 pages I have to agree that this will not work like intended in low sec.

For 0.0 or wormholes, its fine, deploy (with some minor improvements -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=209267#post209267) but for low sec don't deploy this.

---> keep the custom offices there, invulnerable to attacks and RENT them instead, like you rent offices in stations!

In every station in a system in low sec, add a button next to the rent office called rent custom office.
When we press it open a list with all the C. offices that the system has, show information about planet type, how many command centers the planet has, how many ISK will cost to rent the C. Office for 30 days and also show the corp name if any is rented already.

That is it, the rent works like the offices in station, you put it in auto payment, you can cancel payment when you like.

The office belongs to Concord so standings to access it should be according with the standings each user has for Concord. The only thing the renter can change is the C. Office taxes.

To help people to accept this new changes, all c.offices are deactivated until rented.

Also define renting prices based on planet types, the rare ones should be more expensive. Give discounts for corps that have good standings with Concord,

PS: for systems in low sec with no station that we can dock to rent the c. offices I'm out of ideas, but is a small problem and it needs to be solved for this to work properly in all low sec systems.

---

Some ideas for the future- > Lets assume renting is a success and c.offices aren't available for renting ->>>>>Renting can be done by auction!

- Each office has minimum starting bid and a huge buyout price, the auction time is of 1 day
- The auction starts after the first bid is made.
- Anyone with a command center in the planet where the office is, receives a email with the warning of the auction start
- After 24 hours the winner, rents the office for 30 days
- at any moment of the 24 hours anybody can buyout the rent
- all proposals but the first are secret
- everybody receives mails that a corp x made a bid
- you can only bid once every hour

and that is it, the winner takes the rent, the others receive their money back and a email with the winner name and the ISK it pay for the 30 day rent.

- when the rent ends, if the user has the automatic pay setting for c.offices, the auction starts automatically with the minimum bid and we start the auction process all over again....

---

Other cool ideas, since you are iterating over PI:

1 - Why not instead of give x5 bonus to links, create a book to train (level 1) that gives that? we really need objectives and more stuff to train in this game, you have a opportunity here use it!

2 - Why not gives us even more books to train that improve PI, like:
- A book that reduces in 5% each level the power consumption of extractor heads
- A book that reduces in 3-5% each level the CPU consumption of PI structures
- A book that reduces in 3-5% each level the power consumption of PI structures
- A book that improves heads yield in 2% each level per hour
- A book that improves production cycles of factories 1 minute per level

GIVE US COOKIES

BTW, many FW players will be severely disappointed if this turns into the FW occupancy mechanic.... FYI.

FW gives Concord LP? Also I don't see it stated or insinuated this had anything to do with FW occupancy

Some responses to issues in general:

Blinking wallet intel: It's the corp wallet that will increase, not a player's. I don't think your average corp member's wallet icon blinks for corporate account balance changes. To gather the intel, someone with corp wallet access would have to be watching their corp wallet window. Otherwise, it makes perfect sense that you'd see the records of who accessed your CO and when. There's nothing stealthy about "docking up" a hauler at a customs office and loading up. Non-Issue.

Low-sec PI will be hard: Boo-hoo. Join a corp, stay in hisec, or man up and play the game. Low-sec is empire space that empire doesn't bother to police. It's not supposed to be easy afk income.

Prices will go up: Yep, and then more people will get into either hi-sec PI because it's easy and more profitable than before, or they'll start building low-sec COs when they become cost-effective and really reap the profits. The market will find a balance between supply and demand.

You can't change it now, we're already used to the cushy life: Get over it. Ship hit points changed. Nano-nerf happened. Minmatar guns got buffed. Cap ships are continually evolving. The game changes, adapt or die.

But everyone will leave!: This isn't a game-breaking Nex gold ammo issue, it's just CCP moving your cheese. You'll adapt or someone will take your place in the production line when the money is there to be made. Hi-sec is still "safe" if you can't swim in the deep water where the sharks are. Concord will hold your hand there and make it all better.

Peripheral elements like better control of taxing levels? Better defense opportunities like anchoring a POS or POS-defense mods around it? Increased capacity of the rocket launches? Optionally allowing corporate access to the production?

I think yes on all those.

Like any new feature, it could stand some polish for sure. I think those discussions are more productive than the whining about how it'll never work and the whole game is ruined because PI got interesting finally.

Is it no longer fashionable to have your extractors and factories send stuff direct to a launchpad (instead of a storage thingy)? That would solve your command center problem.

@ CCP Omen and CCP Nullarbor

While I truly like the idea of player owned customs offices, I see a few problems, as other people have already iterated.

High sec customs offices still being owned by CONCORD makes sense, seeing as it's high-sec. The increase in taxes won't matter in the long run, as prices will rise to compensate.

Player owned customs offices (POCOs if you will) in 0.0 space and W-space are excellent ideas. I don't think anyone has come up with a valid argument against those, aside from the small details of access to the POCO and corp storage, at least for wormhole residents.

The main issue that I see, along with many others here, is the fact that low-sec will gain these player owned structures. Tax rates aside, as I see people either keeping taxes at a reasonable level or blowing up the structures completely. 0.0 residents are sure to deny the enemy resources. It's a standard tactic of war. Cut off the supply line, you cut off their life line. I'm sure that many people know that low-sec alliances are almost always associated with some sort of 0.0 sov alliance, providing them resources and soldiers, while getting blue standings, chances to pvp in large fleets, and access to resources otherwise not available to them.

Other issues include stealth camping, or "griefing," as well as being not cost effective, especially when compared to current prices of PI goods. Even with a 60% increase in PI prices, profits would be marginal at best, assuming a public tax rate on low-sec POCOs, what few of them there will be, of around 30-40%. And tax rates will need to be high enough where a corp would recoup their cost in a resonable amount of time, say, 2 months.

Although I disagree with is assessment... it's not that the command center was poorly placed, it was optimal at the time. The resources, however, moved requiring the set up to move while the command center remained in place.

Here's another potential problem... why are these now tied to corporations and not invididuals? The problem is, you get kicked from a corp for whatever reason and now you're cut off from your PI. No one should be able to flip a switch and cut you off from the PI you set up yourself with your own isk.

Hmm... you need to step up the PI then. It's hard to imagine it being done so poorly that you can remain on a single place for any great period of time. Max the skills, crank up the output.

I do admit... even with initial deployment I'm not connecting the command center even though everything is right there with it. There's no need to... it's storage is inferior to a launchpad.

Hmm... you know... command centers could use an overhaul. They're just not very... commanding. More of an annoyance. Buff the storage on them and make them mobile and it's win all round.

Agreed. For instance, perhaps CCP could make them conquerable or perhaps tie in standings with the NPC faction that actually holds sovereignty. They still need to make it riskier and more dangerous and possibly more expensive than high-sec PI. I'm sure we;ll debate the merits of what they come up with, as I'm sure they are doing this moment.

I wonder then if it's because I use most planets for extraction of P0, export P1 and one planet that converts P1 on up... maybe that explains the greater drainage...

Thanks for clarifying. It seems to me that they need to make launchpads capable of :shock: launching stuff, then. At least that would give you an option if you don't want to drop customs offices (although I stand by my comment about it not being that much of a hardship for you given your vast potential income).

You would think.... but perhaps a more reasonable arguement to present to CCP might be that the Command Center Upgrades skill should have a direct relationship to the m3 launch capability of the rocket. Which in turn would = 2500m3 and solve the Tier 4 Advanced Commodities export problem in a practical and reasonable way.

Because as a pilot of a Sandbox MMO, I should be able to choose how and in what way I engage others in any mechanic intended to increase player interaction. And I should also be able given an option to use my cunning as a player to circumvent my 'intended playmate'.

Linking Command Center Upgrades skill to CC m3 launch capacity would be a brilliant adjustment that would make much of this feature change far easier to swallow voluntarily. As it is not as efficient as launching to a POCO with a greater capacity, and will require daily runs (as regards Tier 4 Adv. Commodities) to the target launch system thereby also increasing player interaction.

This would be a solid argument to present to CCP over what you have proposed imo.



*P.S. It is also feasible to make this a Temperate and Barren Command Center feature only to avert using it on lower m3 commdities to circumvent the improved efficiency of the POCO. Also an increased ISK sink need be applied to such a change so that a PI Colony Operator is not overly incentivized to abstain from POCO use.

So clearly based on feedback in this thread, part of this change "might be something good!" while other parts very well "might be something bad!".

I am waiting to get a sign from the team that owns this that they see they haven't got this change nearly right yet and to clarify when they will be inflicting this "wonder" on the 'verse?

So "Team Planetary Infarction", are you listening? Will you be open to changing how this will work? When should we expect this?

If they have already answered this sorry to ask something "asked and answered" but I couldn't see that we've had any feedback about our feedback.

Issler

1) Its been mentioned that the Tax rate based of some imaginary number...

I'm all for increasing the amount of m3 you can launch with a rocket, but it shouldn't come close to being able to compete with the capacity of a customs office.

[quote=Kassasis Dakkstromri]



Like say, a POS mining moon goo? They're all over lowsec. Their commodities are critical to T2 production.



Actually, I think that's the line to draw - sovereignty. In lowsec you can build industrial structures, own corp assets, plunder the resources, but you can't hold sov and build a station.

Yes, still reading! I am also compiling a list of issues and concerns that you voiced in this thread. Really glad to see all the opinions, ideas and deep thoughts presented here, thank you.

This is a space flight sim.

dropping competion means rising prices and that's exactly what will happen there....

... This is just a free ISK blank check for big blocks.

The side-issue is that if you can see where all the POCOs are, then you have a list of targets to destroy. Since they have no defenses (instead of being setup like a POS tower), being able to find them remotely so easily is going to put big target marks on them.

They *do* need to be visible in the S&I window, and searchable - but I feel that the ownership details need to be hidden, and possibly you are only allowed to see POCOs which you can currently use. That would require spying where you slip someone into the corp/alliance in order to find out where there POCOs are, or you slip into the system and use d-scan to figure out which planets have POCOs and go to them to see who owns what POCO.

Also for us it will be a new way tax the corp members... it will be a good tool for the industrial corps...

I really think that any solution must:

1. provide income enough to be worthwhile
2. have incentive to both attack and defend the source of that income
3. not dramatically effect the economy (ie quadrupling the cost of PI materials would be too dramatic)
4. closely related to # 3, but worth mentioning separately, allows PI production to be fairly painless, fairly low income vs other activities. I don't think the goal of this change is to dramatically change PI itself.

What will happen to my spaceports?
Will they dissappear?
I currently use them as my primary storage, as actual storage buildings have too little space.

If they do, will the stuff inside it teleport to a station?

Hmm, not sure what you are trying to say here.

Certainly agree that different planets will generate different levels of income based on the resources of that planet.

How much resources being pulled off the planet is the tax base. How much income is generated from the tax base is a function of the tax rate, which is a percentage of the tariff. A high tax rate would cause people to use another planet or use launches to minimize the costs.

That's an artifact of the already existing issue where tax rates on the different tiers have too much of a variance.

- Taxes on P0 are 0.10 on items that are worth about 1.00-2.00 ISK (so a 5-10% tax rate).
- P1 pays 0.76 ISK on stuff that is worth 300-500 ISK (before the price spike), or about 0.15-0.25% tax rate
- P2 pays 9 ISK and is worth 2500-4000, about a 0.22-0.36% tax rate
- P3 pays 600 ISK on stuff that sells for 25000-45000, a 1.3-2.4% rate
- P4 pays 50,000 ISK on stuff that sells for 600k to 1100k, 4.5% to 8.3% rate

So under the existing tariff schedule, P0 and P4 (and P3) are a lot more sensitive to tariff rate changes then the P1/P2 because they pay a higher percentage of their value in taxes then the other tiers. Basically, the P1/P2 tariffs are about 5x too low when compared to the others and P4 tariffs are about 2x too large.

Smoothing that out prior to release would help POCOs on planets used for P1 harvesting to have a far better payback period (5x shorter if the base tariff is raised 5x). And the P2 factory worlds would end up on an even footing with the P3 factory worlds.

On the more controversial side - I think hi-sec, NPC-owned, POCOs need to charge a lot more then the proposed 10% tariff rate (50-75% tariff would not be out of line). The 10% tariff rate is too low and makes lo-sec or NPC null-sec POCOs unable to compete at all economically. As you point out, why take the risk with anything higher then P2 in lo-sec when you can just pay a 10% tariff in hi-sec?

But if hi-sec has higher tariffs, then there need to be (a) reduction in fees if you have high standings with the NPC faction that controls that region and (b) a skill that reduces POCO tariffs. If hi-sec POCOs charge 70% for zero-standings and zero-skill, then at 10.0 standings it should drop to 60% and with the level V skill trained it could drop as low as 50%.

Tax rates in high-sec are being increased, however, not nearly as much as you are saying. the increase of 50% is plenty and will still make PI available to newer players (ie a 6% tax will increase to a 9% tax, which isn't a small amount of ISK considering that base PI prices will rise). As a member of EveUni, I think you would know the merit of helping players that have under 3 million skill points make a little bit of extra ISK here and there.

As I posted here ( https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=208048#post208048 ) --


Having taxes set as a percent is NOT the way to do this. It works in real life because it's a percent of what the goods are being sold for. But CCP doesn't know what the goods are selling for, unless you float the item's base tax price daily according to a jita average. You are using some arbitrary value that will eventually (if not immediately) be totally inaccurate, on which people base a tax rate. It makes no sense, because you could have people wanting to set taxes to be, say, 300% in order to get a reasonable fraction of value for a plasma planet.

Allowing the POCO owner to set a straight up isk per m3 tax would make more sense. It's makes cost immediately clear to the user, it encourages users to have more complex setups on a planet instead of exporting raws or p1s, and it would encourage people to produce the most profitable products per p3 at a given tier, which is a user demand-driven market driver instead of driving the market based on some weird base tax value CCP creates.

THIS^^

Cloaky hauler too small? Tough ****. Want to name the POCO? Too bad. Don't want to go to PVP? Don't go to low-sec.

Some of the whine here has an excellent year, I recommend some nicely aged gouda or perhaps some brie and toast points.

CCP has said numerous times that under the current planned tariff scheme, the existing tariffs that we pay today would be equivalent to a 5% tariff setting on the new POCOs. So if you pay 9 ISK to export under today's Customs Office, you would also be paying 9 ISK to export under the future POCOs if they leave them at the 5% setting.

That tariff setting can be set anywhere between 0% and 100% so the "full" 100% tariff planned by CCP is 20x more expensive then the current tariff rates and that hi-sec Customs Offices will be set at a 10% tariff.

(TL:DR; P1/P2 proposed tariffs are 5x too low, P4 proposed tariff needs a 50% cut and hi-sec POCOs need to use at least a 40-60% tariff in order to make the lo-sec POCOs more appealing.)

Yes, we are still following this thread. I have compiled a list of player concerns which I have updated several times. The responsible Devteam has answered quite a lot of questions so far also.

The feedback is good and constructive here, exactly of that sort which is most valuable. Thank you very much!

...

Size of planetary launches:
A flat size increase has been requested many times, or a tie-in to the command center skill, but how about creating a new skill for it (Launch Vehicle Operation?), which adds 1k m-¦ (or just doubles it) per level over the default 500 m-¦. This would allow players to actively choose this as a viable alternative to POCOs if they owner turns out be just screwing around with the tax and/or access all the time. Might also have another skill to reduce the cost of a launch and/or decrease launch intervals. Maybe even one more skill allowing for imports via some sort of launch canister

...

Well, my opinions on the current suggestions. Discuss!

Many problems would be solved if COs remained in 0.3 and 0.4 while players can erect their own in 0.1 and 0.2. Lowsec alliances can own their own COs if they want, but highsec dwellers can still go into lowsec for PI.

Two of the blockade runners can fit the gantry. For those who didn't pick the right races, they can cross-train or use a deep space transport and team mates.

We put in a change today so that mails wont be generated unless you do at least some significant amount of damage. A lone rifter doing a drive by won't trigger it, because that would be annoying.

I believe Omen is working on another dev blog to explain some more changes and reiterate some of the answers we have given in this thread. No ETA on that just yet, as it depends on making sure we can actually get it all done first.

There is no reason people couldnt stay in high sec and produce, just like they do now. Low sec could be more profitable, like it is now.

If the new taxes cause the price of robotics to go up to the current 75k or so (up from the 50-60k in the near past) I don't think that is a huge issue and the economy will adjust to it. If the price were 500k for robotics, thats not so easy to adjust to.

So can these structures be unanchored? Any news on this yet?

CVA might let neuts use our planets. That is for my leadership to decide, but I am sure it will be considered seriously if it is an option.

I could name my own alliance (we're even going to let reds use our offices), but that would defeat the point of a posting alt. I know of at least one alliance looking to allow neutrals to use theirs.

Meh. I don't troll and I'm sorry if one of my posts came across that way.

I've been thinking about this. Anchorable items like POSes and secure containers can be unanchored. Upgradeable structures cannot. I asume this is precisely why CCP made the CO a structure that needs to be upgraded. CCP prioritizes provoking combat over PI.

mon, it is a game, and the isk has to sink in vacuum to make it all turn smoothly... On the other hand - do you think you know where YOUR reallife taxes gone? ha-ha-ha.

But seriously. Will you (I mean CCP) add import option to the command centers? Or my lil smart factory shall close imminent?

At the rate you all are going with the tax stuff, we'll all need to train Rocket Science V to do PI. Keep it simple.

Dust 514 battles take place not in EveGÇÖs star systems, but on a select number of planets. PS3 players sign in to EveGÇÖs own social network and can negotiate contracts with PC players.

For an agreed ISK bounty fee, a Dust mercenary could, for example, take control of a planetGÇÖs anti-aircraft weapon and fire at co-ordinated targets into EveGÇÖs outer space GÇô all in real-time.

They could, on the other hand, be paid to take command of an entire planet so a contractor is free to plunder the area. Players will need to decide, and haggle, on objectives and rewards for themselves.

...

GÇ£We wonGÇÖt pretend weGÇÖll know what will happen as we begin connecting the two games and allowing information to flow between both. That will iterate over time. But the objective is to make Dust 514 be significant to the world of Eve and vice-versa. So Dust players can call in air support or munitions from Eve players." [Thor Gunnarsson]

except when it comes to exporting any of the products from the panet. unless you will be able to transfer directly from planet to pos netweokds(omfg that woudl be awesom pos and pi sucks ass)

Hmm... so someone making 3500 plus units of oxygen per day... how much time would we be having to waste on that, not counting the other eight planets I have producing P1 mats?

You're a sick, sick man for thinking that sounds like a good idea.

Haha CCP is gonna read this and go 'yep we're heard enough, LAUNCH THE PCO BPO'S!'

'Also close this thread, it is no longer needed. They'll be fine.'

C'mon Nullabor, think this through. Simplest solution would be to leave the customs offices in place (even at an increased tax rate) and have them "offlined" if a PCO (I like that better than POCO) is present. Hell just make some kind of isPcoPresent flag and allow or deny access based on that. If there's a PCO, you need to use that to connect to the launchpads. If not, the customs office is accessible and connects to the launch pads. Even if this is only for a three to six month transitionary period it prevents the crippling effects simply removing the customs offices will have. Forget about what you "expect" the players to do. Since when do they do that anyhow? Look at what's really happening in the game. Then step back and look at it from a broader perspective, not just that of a dev on the PI team.

The biggest thing you do with leaving customs offices in place as described is basically save low sec PI by giving hogh sec people something to fight for... namely access to low sec planets that corporations either set up a PCO as a denial of access tactic or set up at an exhorborant tax rate. People in high sec will have a reason to head into low and blow the PCOs to hell, allowing themselves access to the customs office until such a time as they can plant one of their own or someone does at a tax rate the high sec folks find worth paying.

You know this makes sense.

Wormholes also benefit nicely from this method... PCOs can be brought in as needed rather than making them a requirement to get immediately or their fuel supply is shut off. You're putting too much control over wormhole living in the hands of people you "expect" to be offering the BPCs on the market. I'm sure there will be at first, but the prices will be crippling... this is Eve, that's what people do. This chatter you're seeing about 'just using the launchpads'... look at the volumes of stuff moved in wormhole PI and you'll be forced to admit that's a load of crap, even if you're using that as an escape to convince yourselves you're not really breaking the system.

These PCOs have a lot of potential, they really do. But you're also seeing a lot of potential issues. It's far more important... or at least it should be... to introduce these in a way that benefits the game as a whole instead of focusing on a timeline. There needs to be a gradualness built in that allows the majority to absorb the impact relatively painlessly. One really bad decision that breaks a significant part of the game for a lot of people can easily overshadow for those people some of the great things coming at the same time.

Try and look at it from the perspective of someone actually in the game, not of that as someone that designed the system and has an emotional attachment to the initial design.

Remove the POCOs, but increase the command center launch capability by 25% for every level trained in Command Center Upgrades.

Or just make the higher variants of the Command Center hold more and be able to launch more at the same time:

Level 0 CC - 500 m3
Level 1 CC - 750 m3
Level 3 CC - 1000 m3
Level 4 CC - 1500 m3
Level 5 CC - 2000 m3

(I don't think you should go much above 2000 m3. for the top level. And frankly, the level V command center should have a good bit more CPU/PG then it does now to pay for that long training time.)

Remove the POCOs, but increase the command center launch capability by 25% for every level trained in Command Center Upgrades.

Or just make the higher variants of the Command Center hold more and be able to launch more at the same time:

Level 0 CC - 500 m3
Level 1 CC - 750 m3
Level 3 CC - 1000 m3
Level 4 CC - 1500 m3
Level 5 CC - 2000 m3

(I don't think you should go much above 2000 m3. for the top level. And frankly, the level V command center should have a good bit more CPU/PG then it does now to pay for that long training time.)

the cc dosnt have to be linked to teh storage(launchpad) to put stuff in it does it? i thought it was that experdite transfer thing that teleported it there.

if you do have to link it, the cc should be movible as that was designed when the resorses didnt move all over the planet, like the pi mark2 now does
brings me back to pi should be redone compleatly before you add more dull stuff to it, just imo ofc

Quote: CCP Omen- "EVE Online should not be about bowing to NPC authority, it should be about player-to-player interactions"



Does that mean with certain Skills and Uber Sec Status, WE can work for Concord and be "Space Police" working along side Concord to deal with "Law Breakers"?

Maybe be given a special Concord Implant that improves Weapon/Ship skills/abilities...etc.

Just make it extremely hard to join, and extremely easy to get kicked! ( a must is 9.5 Sec with State + Pirateless history vs When a single Concord employment rule is broken: Insta-pop to loose implant + an insta -0.9 Sec)

That would stir things up!

not the end of the world, just a total pain in the arse waste of time, effort and isk.
pi as a whole needs reworking imo to not be a ballache, then tack the dust eve link on.

I very much doubt Dust guys will attack colonies. All the news from Dust say it's based on corps, and CCP has not moved away from the "colonies for players not corps" idea.

My own guess is that CCP will introduce a surface counterpart to the customs office, and Dust bunnies will fight over those.

All offices should be conquerable from NPC and when they exit reinforcement in 0.1 - 0.4 space a COCORD fleet should be there to defent it and players within range with positive standing and no pirateing activity should be notified with a special mission to join forces. If they lose it then it can be replaced with a player owned office and from time to time CONCORD should try to gain control over it again informing players with that special mission.

The reward should be LP points or standing towards the faction that sent out the troops.

That would be more fair IMHO.

well unles low sec pi gets a buff( the amounts are bad in 0.4-0.2) there will still be no economic reasons to fight for the right to pi/deploy planet things.

i do hate to bang on, but revist pi and then when thats not a pile of ****, look at this addition

I tend to move once every four to six weeks. Hardly a "hot spot of the day" thing. Still, it only takes once and you're no longer connected to the command post. These worlmole planets hold up quite well for a good period of time, but not forever at any one location. So, based on my PI levels and how well I can maximize extraction --> P1 conversion per planets, there are periodic moves required.

You sure you manage a few dozen planets? You should know something so basic.

Our assumption is that Alliances or any corp will want to make money off their CO in low-sec. If that assumption turns out to be wrong, then we might intervene with a future update.

The structures are already on Sisi, and from what I've seen the stats are unchanged from the devblog.

They are not seeded, so you'd need LP on Sisi to build one and test the mechanics.

Im just wondering what Idiot will actually use a player Poco in low sec..... Hello look a customer ....... BOOOOOMMM...

HAHAHHA what a carebear quick lets wait on the next one....

They already have coded for the PI power users. Otherwise there wouldn't be any. They're potentially breaking an established paradigm.

Yes, CCP is moving your cheese. Get over the angst Mr. Angst.

So it seems despite all the feedback to CCP that the concept was broken for low sec we see on SiSi it implemented as blogged?

They really don't get it.

Issler

I keep see this issues being talk about and the current path being a negative one. So CCP Dev's what if the people say Cancel this POCO and work on polishing the game over new content. Is that so much to ask??

Since they are totally defenceless, i would suggest putting in some kind of defence.

Etc, it would be pretty annoying while your sleeping that some noob spend some few hours alone sitting with his drones to get the office down to reinforce mode.

A way to add some defence to it can be done in some ways.

1. being able to upgrade the office with an attachment of dronebay. (150 m3) with 125 bandwith
The dronebay attachment has 4 med slots, etc with the purpose of putting an sensor booster on it, some drone mod bonus'ses.
As standard the dronebay attachment would have an range of 50km (hench why u can attach a sensor booster.
Depending on the size of the attacking ship, the dronebay attachment would then send out drones accordingly to the mass of
The attacker. Etc. light drones (if in stock) against a frig. Heavy drones vs bc & bs or aboth.

2. The office could be upgradeble with small to medium guns, those guns cant be killed, but if the office went into reinforce mode,
The guns would be shut down, untill repaired.

now a q.

In lowsec, its a criminal act to attack an another player where u would loose standing, would it count in the same way when attacking an office (unless u at war)

Please link to a dev blog or official blue response that says that, otherwise stop with that line of reasoning. PI was always intended to be a source of conflict (almost the entire reason for DUST, besides the 'cash in on console FPS' bandwagon). This concept just advances us one more step along the road towards making it a fight over resources, just like moon mining (which also require fixed assets).

And when it comes to conflict, lone wolves only survive by being crafty, sneaky, and staying away from the large packs and busy areas. Which, for PI, means using customs center launches or setting up shop in a very quiet system.

i'm actually pissed

Edit: Inappropriate parts removed, CCP Phantom

The Customs Office Gantry and CO upgrade costs are far too small for their size and operation this structure performs. Costs should be increased tenfold.

We know how much these POCO BPCs are going to cost, LP and ISK-wise. But how many runs will they each carry?

Probaly already suggested;

But because of the PCO`s you got 2 options; build one, or use one from another dude, or the rocket; how about a third option?

I call it Primae. (Yes that one.) It has everything you want for this. So why not release bleuprints for him, place it between the cargo space of a rocket and PCO. (The Primea will interact almost instantly with the surface.)

In this case you have a in my eyes win-win situation;

1. You dont have to use "hostile" PCO`s
2. You dont have to use the crampy little rocket.
3. It a dedicated PI ship. And fits between the rocket and PCO

To make people use the Primea you should make him the only ship able to transport PI stuff. (As already done in the "free" Primea)

People get a "new" ship. Builders will get a new ship to build, Miners will get a new ship to do PI with.

So in other words; You can choose between "unsafe" rocket launch with tiny cargo. (expensive) A more safer Primea with larger cargohold and ability to pace command centers. (less expensive but still costly and no tank.) Or the "safe" PCO with largest cargohold. (Cheapest, but the PCO owner could ask a fee of 100%.)

Ok i stand corrected as i looked at what i said, and it sense no make. Will rethink the idea and post a better one :P

Look to its coming on the first light of the third day, at dawn look to the ... err, yes, early next week!

Also big thanks to the Team Pi and their extra work in many additional night shifts.

I looked thru all the Dev posts but didn't see this question;

In the past, Co's were put up upon the installment of the first planetary launchpad.

When the old CO's go bye-bye, what happens to all the launchpads already installed? Do they go poof as well? or will they remain and basically act as a larger storage?

Will launchpads be able to be installed on a planet with no CO, after the change?

So without going through 83 pages to see if this has been asked (apologies if it has)

What happens to my PI that is sitting in NPC customs when this change happens? Disappears? Gets moved to a NPC station nearby?

Can't send it back to the planet because my storage there may be full... and I certainly don't want to be paying another fricken round of export taxes, especially the ridiculous double taxes....


CCP - Congrats on continuing to gank PI producers... did the PI dev do something to **** all the other dev's off?

CCP!!!!

Please change your plans for low sec COs!!!

You will ruin PI for many and just add new static pirate hobby targets!

You will once again screw the little guy with your low sec CO plans!!!

Issler

It is only sort of answered. If you are in a system with no station then were does it go?

Well that would be just great - except if it goes to a station that I don't have access too...

Yes I have. And I tried that new SiSi build. Customs Office Gantry's are no longer seeded on the market. Makes you wonder......

I followed this thread from day one and posted my thoughts and ideas along with many other players. I think CCP got lots of good thoughtful ideas and feedback.

Given all this feedback, essentially all CCP was able to do was change the way that CO's are removed from the game and added the ability to change tax rate by standing?

Are you kidding me? Seriously? Did you read the feedback from the people who play and care about this game?

Granted, both of the major changes were very much needed, but it's a far cry from what really is needed to make the original goals a positive thing within Eve. As it is, I think it's a not a positive change by any stretch of the imagination.

CCP - you wasted your time implementing this, and you wasted the time of all those who gave you honest thoughtful constructive feedback. I will never give you feedback again, as it is clearly a waste of time.

I probably will see how this thing settles out, not because I have any real hope that it will work well, but because it's only a couple weeks away.

Hi-sec CONCORD 5% import fees / 10% export fees:

P0 - 0.25 / 0.50 ISK/u
P1 - 25.00 / 50.00 ISK/u
P2 - 450 / 900 / ISK/u
P3 - 3500 / 7000 ISK/u
P4 - 67500 / 135000 ISK/u

Or see:

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/CustomsOffice

Your calculation sounds about right though. Just make sure to raise your prices 50-85 ISK on P1 products that you sell on the market and you'll be fine.